Hi Chris, i noticed you used the K type thermocouple with the M4. Maybe Im missing something? Hi Brandon. I am flattered, but will have to pass. I dont own a multimeter. You could approach this two ways. Hi Chris. Because there is very little information on how to install a PID on the latest generation of the New Classic (2018 and newer, also called the Gaggia Classic Pro in North America), here are instructions on to do this. Thanks! From what you describe, it looks the power wires for your PID are possibly tapped in-line with the boiler power? I used to get this phenomenon with the original temperature control, but much less so, and I just used to run some water through the machine (using it to warm the shot glass and the portafilter especially if I hadnt had the machine warm up for very long) before pulling a shot. After autotuning, my values are: Im using a calibrated FLUKE 51II digital thermometer and a K-type thermocouple to measure temp. Hi Evan. that will make it where only one SSR is needed. Its pretty straightforward. I hope you enjoy your upgraded GC as much as I do mine! One last question: Auber and Mr Shades are calling their sensors PT100 while mine is K type thermocouple. Thanks. This feature allows you to operate the brew pump manually, with the timer as a reference. That controller is an interesting find. This would also allow you to switch to PID-controlled brew mode simply by lowering the PID temperature. Based on several comments, the wiring varies between units, even though they are the same model. You need a 85-250V DC model, as the power will be coming from the Classic, which is mains-level voltage. Manual Machine Shop. So far the temp range Ive seen when the heater cycles on/off (after ~30 mins of warming up) is ~90C to ~97C. Hey Chris, 0. I have checked the calibration of the PID sensor using boiling water in a kettle and it is fine. You want to connect the PIDs mains power terminal to the side of the Gaggia power switch that cuts out power when the machine is off. Or is the only power available from the mains? Thanks for the PID info. If not, can you think of any potential mistakes I made along the way? The thermostat is a replacement, the original one burned around three years ago. Was hoping to actually just install one of these: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/264849127538 Your email address will not be published. Using two 5-8 cm pieces of properly-rated wire (15 amps for North America), make two connectors to connect the thermostat wires to the AC terminals of the solid state relay. I agree the ability to know exactly where the steam cycle is at is a nice convenience. excluding VAT. Universal Input: Thermo Resistor: PT100, Cu50 . Do you think this makes difference? Shall I connect it to terminal 5 or 2 of the on-off switch? Some shops are quoting $80.00 for the PID enclosure + lid. As for your PID always remaining on, it looks like you wired it to the unswitched mains, instead of the switched power. 6. 100% Upvoted. But Ive downloaded the wiring diagram for my machine. The cup warmer does seem a bit hotter than before (but have only used twice since installing, so Ill have to pay attention). Did you reverse any wires to the steam switch? I adjusted the calibration offset on the PID +5.5 degrees to read 212 degrees.Have you any suggestions of more accurately calibrating the PID and TC? Whole Latte Love has a new video about preinfusion on the classic. These wires will be connected to the solid state relay later on, so they no longer need to be in the bottom of the machine. 2. I am not sure exactly what you did when you moved the wires terminating on the bottom of the power switch. Required fields are marked *. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoZuYaDq5yc, Thanks Jeff, thats a great video. Its stimulated a lot of interesting discussion! Final note: before going down the PID route, the easiest modification to make, and the best starting point for Gaggia Classic modifications, is lowering the brew pressure. PID Modification by Auber Instruments' Customer. My previous comment did not format the way I wanted the table data to look. Just leave the SSR disconnected, or dont install it at all. One end is connected to the mains connector at the back (where it is showing N sign), the other end is connected to the back of the on off switch (as you showed on the picture above). Submit. My next thought was my wiring of the heaters is incorrect and that one of the two elements must be permanently powered after the mod and therefore not controlled, especially since Im modding a Gaggia Classic not a Gaggia Classic Pro. How to install a PID on a Gaggia Classic Pro - DIY, cheap and good looking! Run-program does a 1s pre-infuse followed by about 1s pause, then 30s pump on. QB-T7100 48*24mm Programmable Digital PID Temperature Controller AC/DC 85-250V Do I got the kit with pre-infusion or just the standard one? I attached the thermocouple using a spade connector to a spare pin on top of the boiler block. I found that moving the boiler up and to the side allowed me to get to the thermostat from the bottom really easily vs. the top. Is it possible to do this with the GC factory temp sensor? Mr Shades is selling many small items (piggyback, spade, thermal paste, power cable, rubber grommet etc.) I should pointed out that the temperature ranges I was referring to were with the -8C offset on the PID. sv4mzu 20, 2022 8:05 am. Hello Chris, Hi Chris, I completed the whole project both for brewing for PID and steaming via alarm. This way you are not losing any pressure via the solenoid valve, you are just reducing the initial pressure to the puck by venting some of it through the steam wand. Have you gone through the (three) menus on the pid , using the instructions of your pid. Using pliers to pull the connectors can pinch them on even more tightly, making them extremely difficult to remove. Your picture however shows the thermocouple connected to terminals 9 & 10. That would be easy enough to verify with a multimeter, to see which thermostat is active in steam mode and which one is active in brew mode. Thx, The SSR is just a fancy switch and it should only be turning on and off, so depending on how you measure you may not see current. Thanks Alex! I have to turn the set point on the PID down to about 85C to stop it boiling and getting steam and a great deal of sputter out of the portafilter. I have only been drinking milk drinks and americanos because the shots I was pulling were always overly bitter, sour, or both, regardless of grind and quantity. It looks like your GC is in steam mode. Thank you for making it. Like NEW Gaggia Classic Espresso w/ Grinder and Base - - 6758821731. Have had the parts sitting around for months and no time to install! View Product Information. Approach 2: Divert from my writeup by installing the thermocouple so that it replaces the steam thermostat, and set the PID temperature to your preferred steam temperature. Note: I fully tested the PID, SSR and thermocouple on the workbench before final installation. I am glad this article helped. PID TEMPERATURE CONTROLLER W/ 30 RAMP / SOAK, KILN $81.98. These set the parameters and algorithms that monitor and control. share. I recently acquired a Gaggia Classic with an Auber PID controller installed. I 37 I tested the current with multimeter and it is showing DC 100V when I turn on the on-off switch. With a SV of 103C (not offset), during initial overshoot the heater would sometimes be one when it was at 104-105C with the temperature rising as high as 108. I placed the SSR toward the left side of the back panel if facing the front of the machine. Auber Instruments PID Kit for Gaggia Classic. Apart from that, when I turn on steam mode, the thermostat takes temperature in the machine around 151c-152c, it doesnt turn on again after it goes down to 102C, then turns on and repeats the cycle. Shall I change the P,I and D parameters manually and what is your suggestion to start with? This will give the REX-C100 enough time to auto-tune its PID settings for the boiler. Locked Topic Sticky Topic . People are reporting a difference of up to 24 deg F / 13 deg C between the PID/thermocouple and the water temp. Thanks heaps for the detailed instructions. 1. Main Feature. Hello, thanks for the nice and valuable text. QB-T7200 48*24mm Programmable Digital PID Temperature Controller with Built-in 5A Solid State Relay XMT7100 AC/DC85~260V. I had no problem with my mod other than the stickers on the back of the PID were reversed, so the terminal markings were not correct. Instruction Manual for PID controller kit - Picr. 3. If the PID stays on when wired directly to mains power, you will need to figure out which power wire to tap into. You effectively would have two steam modes, one PID-controlled that replaces the brew mode, and one classic thermostat-controlled steam mode. Even if that is the case, i dont have a clue as to why i would be in steam mode, since i didnt touch the steam mode button or its wires, i have already reverted my swap of the power switches wires (just from up to down on the same switch so that shouldnt have impacted anything) and ive validated that the rollback was correct with a multimeter. When the ">" key is pressed, the controller starts the brewing sequence automatically. One end of the wire should be a male disconnect connector, and the other end should be a spade connector. The C-100 that I received was set up properly, I only had to change the temperature. KIT-GG Installation Guide Version 1.3 Auber Instruments, 730 Culworth Manor, Alpharetta, GA 30022 e-mail: info@auberins.com Tel: 770-569-8420 www.auberins.com . Thanks in advance, this was a huge help! It seems the wiring varies even within model years, and between model regions. Individually PID control parameters If you have questions regarding ourcoffee kits, please check ourHelp Centerfirst. (PID Temperature Controller Meter Indicator, Jaybva Digital Universal Thermostat C and Fahrenhe F Display SSR and Alarm Output 40A Solid State Relay and Thermocouple Probe Heat Sink Included)? To set the target temperature, press the 'Set' button on the front of the panel. It would also be a bit of a weird machine, but this approach wouldnt require any mods or re-setting of temperatures to use the machine to brew. Thanks for the quick reply. This guide should generally also apply to the 2013 GC, but you must assume that any of the switch wiring that I describe will be different for your model year. Because the PID runs on mains voltages, an enclosure is required. However, when I flip the gaggia power switch to off, the PID LCD screen remains illuminated. If you want to defeat this feature, please add this optionto your order. Your email address will not be published. Just got delivery of my 2003 model and waiting on the c-100 and thermocouple. Pressure control could be super nice to have. Rancilio SilviaPID. Hi Murat, But will there be an upper limit to prevent the boiler from going near 365F and blowing thermal. I am glad you solved the problem, Murat. Each segmentcan be set by the user with 0.1 seconds resolution. 4: Links to replacement parts: sensor PT100M4; single-channel solid state relay (SSR): SRDA25, aluminum box: SBOXS. I plan to do this shortly for my old gaggia classic. Thread the thermocouple wire through to the back of the machine, and out the same slot as was used for the other wires. The taste of a real Italian espresso everyday! . The PID I ordered came as a package with a solid state relay and a thermocouple, but that thermocouple had too big a diameter to with the Gaggia. If you need to replace the PID controller, please contact us. Maybe this could serve instead of trying to find an M4 thermocouple. The cable between the SSR and boiler heating element needs to be heavier, at least 14 awg, and ideally silicone-coated. You would need to put the boiler heater element between the controller terminals 2 and 3. Make sure that all the new and repositioned wires are cleanly routed away from the boiler and pump and any uninsulated connectors. Thank you. The only suprise for me has been that installing steam kit did not help me much because brewing kit alone helped to have great steaming power by only watching temperature climb up to 150 degrees. Monitor and display the boiler temperature precisely. Hope this helps. Select the preferred temperature unit so that all parameters are pre-set properly for you. I have a 2018 wiring schematic and verified that the three switches correspond to the original configuration. It was impossible to see without getting down into the wire harness. The A vs E should not make a difference as I am not using alarm function, and am using it with a 3-wire PT100. This is because the switch is connecting the terminals vertically when it is turned on. Shades. This steam blipping is a fairly common practice that people use to avoid boiler heater cycling, its just another way to do temperature surfing. I am going into speculation mode here I wonder if your Gaggia came with the steam and brew thermostat positions reversed? Silver case Black case TopBox with logo TopBox with gauge hole. https://www.auberins.com. I used lamp cord for this. Hi Kez. The result was overshoot of up to 18C and an inability to return to the setpoint temp, 105C, unless I shut everything off and restarted. Ive been hearing the solenoid valve click several times while on steam mode as well, and the group head releasing steam on occasions, which also make me worry in terms of the wiring, or the parts just need replacement. You can only buy them as spare parts. Im assuming it should be fine as well to use 18 awg wire to wire the mains connections to the PID, and between the heating element and the SSR? Realized with your last comment you dont have the offset in place, my bad. I guess I could revert the machine and see what I get. Maybe then try QB-T7100 afterwards and if it works I will buy the external case which is sold seperately (QB looks nicer with small size and external case). Note that according to this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UETVv0qgz-w, you can switch the C-100 between Celsius and Fahrenheit. The countdown extraction timer contains three segments: pre-infusion pulse (Tp), soak (Td), and brew (Tb). The enclosures purpose is first to protect you from the mains current, and second, to make it easier to attach the PID to the Gaggia. Im on [emailprotected] Wear a glove when reaching in from below, otherwise bloodletting is likely. One thing I would really recommend when anyone installs a PID system into the Gaggia Classic is to install a rubber grommet where the cables exit the machine. You can search on Reddit, a few people have made these modifications. Depending on the enclosure, you may need to insert the PID into the housing first. I think this is why using a separate SSR and controller is the only way to go. it works better than poor mans preinfusion described by wholelatte love & Lance in the youtube. I dont have a measuring device but the change in pressure is visually noticeable when running blank shots, and the pitch of the pump changes significantly. Thus, it will significantly improve the taste and consistency of your espresso. Gaggia Classic Coffee Machine Modelo 3D TurboSquid 1036412. Depending on the draw of the display (I saw 50mA somewhere), you could also try running it off a battery. Great guide. PID Retrofit KIT for Gaggia Classic European Model RI9403 [KIT-GGX-EU] Auber Instruments, Temperature control solutions for home and industry. Hi Eddie. Hi Andrue. For the European version of Gaggia Classic 2015 (RI9403, 240V) please checkKIT-GGX-EU. Possibly not the optimal position but was really easy to install and I knew Id only be getting a relative indicative temperature anyway. New - Gaggia Classic Pro/2019 PID kit - 1/32DIN single display $135.30 SHIPPING: We load new stock of PIDs on a Sunday, and they sell out very quickly (often within a few hours). Gaggia Classic Seamless PID Upgrade. Is P=620 maybe an overkill, as I havent seen such a big value at other places? This kit has a pre-infusion timer. For the Gaggia Classic, taking into account the temperature drop between the boiler and the group head (5-8 degrees C), the PID target temperature should be set to about 103 degrees C or 220 degrees F at sea level. If you used piggyback connectors, it should be a quick job to move the right one over to the correct switch terminal. (Markings can be found on front side of the plug) 2-Check the color of the cable which shows L sign on the plug- meaning Live. The lack of consistency pre-PID is frustrating, because you can get everything else right and still be at the mercy of the temperature determined by the thermostat cycle. I would be glad if you have any recommendations. I checked that the PID was able to correctly read a temperature from the thermocouple, and turn on and off the solid state relay depending on the temperature reading. In mine, correct terminal was crosswise of yours. The best part is I am only in about $40 on my kit compared to around $150 for the pre made kits. Contrary to the Gaggia circuit diagram, Black is live, White is neutral, a minor issue. After completing the PID installation, of the standard Rex c-100 version, I ran the PID in autotune mode. Close the PID enclosure, and attach it to the side of the Classic. I opted to follow my connections according to your picture, rather than that text. Do I need to make any adjustments to your procedure to make the PID handle the steam only (not caring about the group head)? https://photos.app.goo.gl/8yPwJcEPDi1c5tfY7 shades uses 2 connecting one ssr thru the other for steam. Youre giving up one of the two temperature readouts, so youll probably only see the actual temperature, as opposed to the target temperature, and I guess you can switch between the two with a button press. https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4243840. The on/off temperature can be adjusted by the user. I would like to use it for steaming ONLY. Thank you Chris for the awesome write up. Brilliant article. I decided to go the do-it-yourself route, ordering the parts separately, at a fraction of the cost of the kits. Replies: 2 Views: 1,615. Auber Instruments. I bought the same parts as you have reccomended in the article but have run into the issue that the thermocouple is too large to fit into the adapter (theyre approx the same OD). On thing I realised is that Mr Shades does not allow purchasing the parts seperately unless you already purchased the kit as a whole. If you had to recommend a single display PID, which one would you steer me to? This is not a difficult mod. When I turn off, it goes back to zero. This would explain the constant switching on and off. That is confusing. I would be surprised if your water is 80 degrees coming out of the boiler with the PID set to 103, but its possible, depending on the thermocouple youre using. The PID works after hooking everything up. Thanks. brew thermostate. This was such a great guide. For more than half a century, Gaggia has been supplying both coffee bars and homes with innovative, state-of-the-art coffee machines. I know what I will be trying tomorrow , Hi, Hi, thanks for the articely, it was great help to do the initial steps. I bought the PiD from Amazon referenced in a comment above and its working fine. Sure enough, it powered up. Perhaps you are refering to the video by Damian Witonski. Thanks again for the write up, Ill be playing around with temperature for the next week! Then use the left/right buttons to select the digits to increase and decrease, and the up/down buttons to change the digits. Warranty: 6-month limited warranty with a 30-day money-back guarantee is offered. Ive seen the steaming power on the classic remains solid from 125C and up, anything below that results in mediocre steaming power, which makes me wonder if I just have an aftermarket part that shouldnt be on this machine, or is just signs of imminent failure. Does the PID generate enough heat to melt the Lego bricks? The only other thing I can think of is the relay. I decided that for me, its not worth worrying about. The sensor has three wires: 1 x red and 2 x white. Also the PID starts with Auto Tuning disabled in my case, so had to be reset. This is a PID controller for the Gaggia Classic by Auber Instruments.This PID controls water and steam temperature. You should see a strange number when the PID first powers on, then after about 3-5 seconds it should switch to the temperature reading from the thermocouple. Or buy a machine with a built-in PID. The kit installation is fully reversible. I would re-crimp any connections that look suspicious. When the steam switch is turned on, the on/off temperature of the heater is controlled to 1 degree (F or C) difference as compared with the original thermostat's >10C (or 20F) difference. Thanks! I dont want to void my warranty. 4.8. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00LODGP2E/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_image_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1, BOX Warning! Do not over-tighten the adapter, it only needs to be finger-tight. Perhaps Ill use a spare Arduino or FPGA to PWM the boiler while brewing as someone else was saying. They have no effect on the temperature during a shot since the heating element cannot respond quickly and accurately enough to manage intrashot temperature control. Thanks Jimmy. Chris, i read some comments here about steam. 40A SSR Solid state relay included https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32975122837.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.11b02e0edh0ELd. Is it possible, despite setting the temperature to 102 degrees Celsius as SV, to actually run GCP much hotter due to incompatibility of the PID and RTD? I had no issues with the K type thermocouple. I still have one question you may be able to answer. The 12 volt wires from the SSR connect to terminals 4 and 5. Thanks for the catch, I will correct the article. Add to cart Buy Now. Auber Instruments PID Kit for Gaggia Classic quantity. 1. Auber Instruments PID Kit for Gaggia Classic. Autotuning had resulted in shot instability up to 10 degrees during a shot probably because conditions during standby and during brewing are very different than each other. Others have managed to also install the PID horizontally and cut out a hole in the side of the GC, but that still requires replacing the water filler funnel. Hi David. So I say go for it, but as Chris said, if you really dont feel comfortable with it, pass on the PID or try to find someone who can install it for you. Feel free to hang out, learn a bit, meditate, ride a bike, or perhaps it's just time to move on. Did a bench test with a tall pot of rolling boiling water and put the tip of the TC in the water and found it was reading 5.5 degrees low. Disconnect the two connectors from the brew thermostat, which is located on the bottom left-hand side of the boiler as you face the machine. PID Kit for older plastic body Gaggia Classic. I have a 2013 Gaggia Classic. Fortunately, no damage done, and you can easily revert your changes. Close. I used the same controller ( XMT 7100 ) which Mr Shades is selling. You can mod the XMT7100 yourself but it requires soldering on the PCB, basically removing the onboard relay and then jumpering the empty terminals. European model Gaggia Classic 2015 (RI9403, 240V) is NOT compatible. But that also seems fiddly. Nevertheless, it will take some time to get it and make a change of the temperature sensor. Always work with the Classic unplugged. Im so thankful for this. I have a similar model, C100-Fk02-V*AN. Hi Miguel. https://wiki.wholelattelove.com/File:GAGGIA_CLASSIC_2019_Wiring_Schematic.pdf There is definitely a falloff from the temperature reported by the thermocouple at the boiler and what you will measure at the group head. Hi Rusty. Do not undertake this procedure if you are not comfortable or uncertain. Since installing the modification, I get a huge amount of steam and spray coming out of the portafilter when I first operate the pump so much so, that it sprays all over the worktop around the machine! There is no 12v anywhere in the GCP, its all mains power inside. Hi Jun, and thanks for the update. The only way to cut it is to unplug the machine. Hi Chris, thanks for the reply. I have to mention that coffee taste is good, not harsh or bitter. Damage done auber pid kit gaggia classic and ideally silicone-coated, the PID thermostat is a nice.... 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